In this conversation between April Pride and Amy Wong Hope, we dive into the therapeutic power of microdosing psilocybin—not as a productivity hack, but as a personal practice to gently unravel conditioned identities and foster emotional clarity. Amy, a licensed social worker and psychedelic facilitator, shares how “small doses” became a tool for healing shame, reclaiming her cultural identity, and supporting clients through transitions. The episode traces the evolution of her co-authored book, Small Doses of Awareness, and the nuanced interplay between science, somatics, and spirituality. Whether you're new to psychedelics or seeking a more integrative microdosing protocol, this episode offers real talk on DIY approaches, the risks and rewards of self-led healing, and how to honor ancestral practices in modern therapeutic use.
🔵 Key Takeaways
Therapeutic microdosing isn't about numbing or optimizing—it's about fine-tuning awareness and reconnecting with your body and emotions.
Amy Wong Hope’s microdosing journey began as a response to fertility questions—and unfolded into a healing modality for intergenerational shame.
The book Small Doses of Awareness is both journal and gentle guide, with prompts and space to track your experience.
Not everyone should DIY microdose alone—seek community or trusted resources before starting.
Integration means slowing down, questioning habits, and choosing presence over productivity.
🔵 Timestamps
[01:53] Amy shares her first psilocybin journey tied to fertility and personal clarity
[03:45] “Big hammers” vs. “little screwdrivers”—why microdosing is a gentler tool
[06:24] Amy and April’s connection through co-author Shin Yi
[08:09] How a public tragedy pushed Amy to reclaim her cultural identity
[09:32] Writing about shame and shedding perfectionism
[12:24] What the book offers: prompts, somatic tracking, and space for reflection
[13:40] Why it’s called Small Doses of Awareness
[15:53] Amy’s take on DIY microdosing—who it works for and how to start responsibly
[17:48] Sleepiness, cacao, and other body responses to psilocybin
[18:08] What not to do: heavy thinking, managing others, or being “on” at work
[20:02] Microdosing has roots in indigenous practices—let’s honor that
[20:54] Why walking your own path is the goal—not fitting a protocol
🔵 Featured Guest
Amy Wong Hope
🔵 Additional Resources
SetSet Blog: “Psychedelic Integration for Women”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 89 “MDMA-Assisted Healing and Psychedelic Therapy”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 80 “Psilocybin Mushroom Dosing 101”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 43 “Psilocybin Mushroom Dosage: A Beginner’s Guide”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 40 “Psilocybin Mushrooms 101: Effects, Dosing, and Tips”
What has microdosing helped you notice—about your body, beliefs, or boundaries? What rituals or questions guide your practice? 👇 Let’s talk about it in the comments after the transcript below.
🔵 Transcript
[00:03] April Pride:
Hey, this is April, and this show, Set Set Show, discusses cannabis, psychedelics, and altered states of consciousness generally. It is intended for audiences twenty-one and over. Also, I am not a medical expert. If you are looking to engage with [therapeutic microdosing], please consult your physician before doing so. Welcome back to Set Set Show. I am April Pride, your host and Chief Executive Officer of Set Set, which is a resource for anyone curious to explore cannabis and psychedelics as well as their [psychedelic wellness] potential. Today, we have the second part of my conversation with Amy Wong Hope, who is a licensed social worker, a trained MAPS MDMA facilitator, a trained psilocybin facilitator, and the director and founder of the Southwestern University School of Psychedelic Studies. In this second part of our conversation, we shift more into [therapeutic microdosing], and she shares insights from her book, Small Doses of Awareness, which is designed to help people integrate [microdosing guide] into their daily lives. We will discuss the benefits of [mushroom microdosing benefits], such as clarity, emotional balance, and personal growth. If you are interested in integrating [conscious microdosing] into your wellness routine, be sure to check out the show notes that link to MicroPsyched, Set Set's twelve-week [psilocybin protocol] that was designed by clinicians to guide you through a safe, structured approach to learn how to microdose yourself. It is a do-it-yourself guide. This guide provides a step-by-step approach to [mindful microdosing] that supports both beginners and experienced users. Join us as we explore the power of small doses and mindful practices with Amy Wong Hope. How did you get interested in [therapeutic microdosing] specifically? Did that come out of your client work?
[01:53] Amy Wong:
No, it did not come out of my client work. It came out of my personal work. I had been for years very deeply engaged in having the honor of getting invited into different types of [plant medicine practices]. Ayahuasca, Huachuma, which is San Pedro, psilocybin, and LSD. And I had very big journeys from probably two thousand thirteen through two thousand eighteen or so. In two thousand thirteen, I had my first experience with psilocybin and it was around some fertility issues that I was having at the time and about whether to continue with fertility treatments. At the time I was turning forty-one, going into forty-two and wondering how much longer do I want to subject my body to this and how much longer is it safe for us to keep trying? And I really could not see through to an answer. And in a psilocybin journey only with one gram of dried mushrooms really took me in such a radical direction, just really helped me see the reasons why I wanted to have a child. And for me to also know there are different ways to have that energy in the world, my mother energy in the world. So it was super powerful. In the years following, I had experiences with ayahuasca, and I would say my first psilocybin journey was equivalent to an ayahuasca journey. It was that powerful for one gram. And in the book, I say the big hammers were these big experiences. These were big hammers that broke me down. They made me see all of the conditioned identities that I was living and roles. And so when my co-author, Shin Yi, asked me for some advice, she said, I would like to microdose and I would like to get off of my antidepressants. This is all in the book, so I am not sharing anything confidential. She said, I would like to get, and I wanted to work with this other person, but they are not able to work with me. They told me that it could possibly go really wrong if I do not have somebody to talk to. And I said, it is [therapeutic microdosing]. I had experiences with larger doses all through my life. I said, [therapeutic microdosing] really is not a problem. It requires a responsibility and accountability and research and thinking about yourself and how you are going to use it more than a cup of coffee. Let us not make it automatic. Let us not make it part of our default mode way of being, right? And I said, yes, to really enter into that mindfulness space. She has been a Zen Buddhist meditator for years, and her poetry is just so seeped in that tradition. You can feel it. You feel like you are actually in sangha with her when you are reading her work. And so she asked me for this advice, and I did not realize that at this moment, me saying yes was me saying yes to being an educator. So I started [therapeutic microdosing] with her. This was in two thousand twenty or something like that. So while I call the big psychedelic experiences and journeys the big hammers that broke me apart and helped me see how many shame identities I was in, I call the [therapeutic microdosing] the little screwdrivers, like the ones you use to fine-tune your glasses and the little wrenches that we use to tighten or loosen the nuts and bolts. And that is how I came to start writing this book with her. And she said, do you want to write this book on [therapeutic microdosing]? And I said, I am just a therapist. I am just a social worker. But the thing is, what I could bring that I knew I could bring were the questions. And the way in which I do share on a vulnerable level where it is appropriate to show my humanity with my clients. And I was like, that is really in the book. Like these little, very short little essays that introduce each of our topics. Like our first chapter is opening into the senses. Prior to that, we have other chapters on how to prepare. And this idea of opening the senses, what questions do we ask to open into curiosity? And maybe this is a more pleasant way to enter into our change process.
[06:24] April Pride:
I should mention that we know one another through Shen Yi. I was giggling when you were talking about her work, Buddhist nature of hers, because she is just like the coolest when you are around her. She is just so matter of fact. It is just like she really is beautiful. You are getting her through and through. This is a person who is sure of themselves here. Authenticity. Realness. And you are American. Am I describing you in a way that feels—
[06:55] Amy Wong:
Right, to get more granular, Shin Yi is Taiwanese-American and I am Chinese-American. Another reason we came closer, we had known each other twenty years ago. She was my poetry teacher in Boston. And then we stayed in touch through Facebook. And in two thousand twenty, she was completing a second master's degree at a college here, IAIA here, which is a famous master's of fine arts. She wanted the experience and wanted to study with a certain teacher. And so we started talking. And what happened in that process of two thousand twenty—do you remember the women, six Asian women were murdered in Atlanta, Georgia? And the way the media talked about this was that he eliminated his desire by murdering these women. And it was a flashpoint for myself and Shin Yi. It might have been, I think it was for many women, many Asian women across the country to be talked about as this objectified thing in the media. And I went through an incredible recalibration with my husband, who is white. And I entered into really deep conversations around identity.
[08:07] April Pride:
And Shin Yi's husband is also white.
[08:09] Amy Wong:
Yes. But that is a point of commonality that you two have with me. It is. Yes. And so reclaiming my Chinese and Asian identity as a woman, that is a really different level, right? And that was part also why I chose to move forward and be public about coming out of my psychedelic closet and talking publicly about psychedelics and conditioned identities in this book, very much so just really talking a lot about my own process, our own processes of undoing those conditioned identities and using that as an example, possibly a meeting of our humanity, that we are all undoing conditioned identities, whoever we are. And that is really such an important theme in the book. It took me about ten tries to write my introductory chapter.
[09:09] April Pride:
So what were you afraid to share? What were you concerned about in that moment? I am just sure that you were being clear, that you were being respectful to yourself and to this movement that I think you are, whether you wanted to start one or not, right? You are part of one, but you are also starting one. So what was going through your mind when you were doing the rewrite?
[09:32] Amy Wong:
Oh, I can remember. I would say my earlier drafts of it were me identifying the parts of me that want to perform perfection. It is still there. I still fight it. I am still undoing that layer. I will be undoing that layer constantly, even in this moment.
[09:51] April Pride:
That is human.
[10:01] Amy Wong:
It is a process. And then also when I love what you said, progress over perfection, because then for me, such an imprint of my ancestral life.The trauma that I carry is around shame. And it was born out of dynasties and dynasties of people and violence that was happening all across the countryside in China every twenty to fifty years, where entire villages would be decimated and the men would all be killed and the women would all be enslaved. At some point, Confucius was traveling around saying, we need to have a moral code. But then it became that moral code. And he really was talking about an internalized moral code. Wonderful idea taken to the extreme in China. We can see the draconian things that are happening in China and how the people are silenced and what they are doing to Tibet, Nepal. And that internalized piece, even though my father was the one who immigrated and my mother was born in the United States, both Chinese. That imprint of shame is so strong in there because it is not like I walk around saying I feel shameful. No one walks around saying I feel shameful. Guess how it turns out? I have to do it right or else I have to be useful. I better be useful. The implication being I have no use. That is right. The one child policy necessitated many families wanting to have boys instead of girls. And now they are really having a problem there. There are deeper things there that I could share that I have learned through transmissions, through experiences of my ancestors talking to me, many of whom I was not close to when they were living even. I could not even speak the same language because my family assimilated so much. My family did not teach us how to speak Chinese because they wanted us to have no accent. So I actually speak more Spanish and French than I do Chinese. I understand more in both of those languages.
[12:12] April Pride:
The generations before us, I think, for the most part, are trying to do what they think is best for us. Thank you for sharing how we came to have this book in the world. How do you describe this book to people?
[12:24] Amy Wong:
So what I would say is in the book, there is going to be room for readers to track maybe some of their emotions, their somatic sensations, their mood or feelings, things like that. So there is a little bit of a checkbox area, and then there is open area for them to put their observations. And so those are three days, two to three days of pages of that in between. We also offer open pages within each of the chapters so that folks could really take those questions at the beginning of each chapter. Let us say it is opening into the senses. What are some of the things that people might be observing, right? Taking a few moments, let your gaze wander and write down everything you notice around you. What we are really doing in all of this is we are not on the treadmill of the capitalistic world. We are not producing something. We are going inward and connecting inward with all of us in our body, in our mind, in our emotions, to our heart, our soul, our core.
[13:37] April Pride:
I have not even said the name of the book.
[13:40] Amy Wong:
Small Doses of Awareness. So the idea is to bring those [small dose therapy] and really ingest them, really savor them, really feel them inside of you. Because that is how we actually reclaim our humanity. And slow down and not feel so compressed. Right. How is this supporting our integration process? I think it is two parts, right? The book is Small Doses of Awareness. And what are you going to do with it? On a tactical moment-to-moment basis. And so the book, really, there is this kind of, there is this constant by committing it to the word in the writing in there, that what we are hoping is actually in the neuroscience, right? When we have a realization, let us say we realize something about a work relationship or some interaction we are having with our romantic partner, our brains are just wired this way that we want to complete the loop. But when we put it out into paper, when we put it into the book, we write it. Guess what it does? It gives us some aspect of completion and seeing it in concrete form. There is something about that, I think. Putting it in concrete form is like we are writing a contract to ourselves because how many times are we entering into implicit unconscious contracts? My hope is that folks might use this book and they might even get a second copy and do it again if they want to. Exactly. They might do it with a group of people, not as accountability like, did you do your homework? But hey, what are you noticing this week in chapter one? What are you noticing in this week of, you know, in the middle, the art of not doing? Right. Right. What are you noticing as you notice what you are feeling obligated about, what you can, you know, what are you feeling compelled to do? What are you obligated to do that you can stop doing? How many things are we doing just by habit we are doing, right?
[15:53] April Pride:
What are your thoughts on this do-it-yourself approach to mixing and psychedelics in general?
[15:58] Amy Wong:
That is a good question. I think some people are very comfortable. Maybe they have used psychedelics before on their own, and those folks are going to be really comfortable do-it-yourself with [therapeutic microdosing]. Folks who have had no experience with psychedelics might have a little bit more nervousness and trepidation. For those folks, I suggest they talk to friends who are knowledgeable or they engage with somebody who can help educate them and connect them to resources. Like Kendra has really great introductory videos for people educating themselves. Start small, go slow. Do not operate heavy machinery. Do not have responsibilities afterwards. Give yourself plenty of space to observe what the effects of these powerful medicines are inside of you. The right psychedelic medicine is different for every person. So it might be different depending on people's metabolism and biological sensitivities. Some of the benefits I have seen are clarity, a lot of clarification, ease, feeling of ease. That has been a big one. I have heard a lot. Oh, I did not realize I could feel ease in my body. And that is mostly with [psilocybin for mental health]. Most folks who are using LSD report, it feels like ease in a direction, like they have got a lot to get done. So they feel ease in that clarity of focus and a flow, a state of flow. Some folks with psilocybin do report at the beginning they experience some sleepiness. And for those folks, they might consider taking it alongside maybe some cacao. Cacao is another very powerful medicine. And one should also do their research there. It is a spirit. It really is a spirit.
[17:48] April Pride:
And it needs to be respected that way. Links to some ceremonial cacao that I trust in the show notes here.
[17:55] Amy Wong:
Some people have found that they might need to [therapeutic microdosing] at night too. Do not [therapeutic microdosing] LSD at night. It will keep you up.
[18:01] April Pride:
What are some challenges that people might find with psychedelics in general, with [therapeutic microdosing] specifically?
[18:08] Amy Wong:
I would not suggest that anybody ever [therapeutic microdosing] and try to do anything that requires a lot of analytical information, for example statistical skills, running a meeting after [therapeutic microdosing], not a great idea. I think it is just really responsible not to expose other people to your experiments. Yes, I think it is important until you have really integrated that knowledge. And in fact, I think knowledge can be integrated and you need not be and should not be in an altered state while you are providing service. Like when I am providing psychotherapy to my clients, I am never going to be in an altered state while I am with them under any psychedelic. I will not ever do that. That is an ethical imperative for me.
[19:31] April Pride:
Really appreciate you sharing that what can go wrong because in this sector, as professionals, I find that people want everything to just be positive because there has been so much negativity that has been brought on these practices and on these medicines over the decades that there are so many people that are fearful of saying the truth and saying, we are helping people navigate their life and they should know.
[20:02] Amy Wong:
In indigenous cultures, they have been [therapeutic microdosing] for eons. And that is where we learned this from. They were using it to support them with hunting and Shipibo cultures. They will put a little tiny little dab of ayahuasca on the babies' tongue or on their finger for them to taste it. The dogs sometimes will eat the purgatives that come out of people during ayahuasca ceremonies and they are drawn to it. And that is very interesting, right? The idea of [therapeutic microdosing] does not come from here. So let us honor how these were using it and actually use it as a way to make us more human, more community minded, more. Treat our fellow humans well and with respect and integrity as we hold that. So that is my hope for psychedelics and [therapeutic microdosing] is that people can walk more themselves.
[20:54] April Pride:
The more of us that are open to these modalities, the more we can be open to people walking their own path and being themselves, right? Thank you very much for your time and sharing all your wisdom and experience and so much about your book.
[21:08] Amy Wong:
You can find me at www.amywonghope.com. It is Amy Wong Hope, H-O-P-E. Like, I hope there is ice cream. I have to often say that because being Asian, people might think it is just H-O. Folks can find it on several different places, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, booksellers.net, which connects to all sorts of smaller booksellers. So if you want to support your local bookstore. Make sure that is internet as well. Thank you so much.
[21:39] April Pride:
Thank you for joining us for today's show. I am April, and I will be back in the next installment of Set Set Show, where we cover everything you need to have a safe, supported, [psychedelic wellness] experience in the wild. If you are starting to think about holiday gifts, Set Set has you covered. For the stoners and psychonauts on your list, Set Set's Psychedelic Cards, a card game to enhance connection and exploration during altered states. Go to GetSetSet.com, that is G-E-T-S-E-T-S-E-T.com, and get one deck of cards for free when you purchase two decks. Enter the number three-F-O-R-two at checkout. That is three-F-O-R-two at GetSetSet.com.
Further reading…
More information about Amy’s clinical and psychedelic offerings. LINK
Order Small Doses of Awareness: A Microdosing Companion LINK
Materials referenced in this episode:
2021 Study: Single-blinded) Self-blinding citizen science to explore psychedelic microdosing (Balázs Szigeti, Laura Kartner, Allan Blemings, Fernando Rosas, Amanda Feilding, David J Nutt, Robin L Carhart-Harris, David Erritzoe (2021) Self-blinding citizen science to explore psychedelic microdosing eLife 10:e62878. DOI: https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.62878)
2023 Review: Microdosing psychedelics and the risk of cardiac fibrosis and valvulopathy: Comparison to known cardiotoxins(Rouaud, A., Calder, A. E., & Hasler, G. (2024). Microdosing psychedelics and the risk of cardiac fibrosis and valvulopathy: Comparison to known cardiotoxins. Journal of Psychopharmacology, 02698811231225609. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1177/02698811231225609)
2020 Survey: Microdosing psychedelics: Demographics, practices, and psychiatric comorbidities (Anderson et al), Journal of Pharmacology , University of Toronto(Rosenbaum, D., Weissman, C., Anderson, T., Petranker, R., Dinh-Williams, L. A., Hui, K., & Hapke, E. (2020). Microdosing psychedelics: Demographics, practices, and psychiatric comorbidities. Journal of Psychopharmacology, 34(6), 612-622. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1177%2F0269881120908004)
2019 Survey: Self-Rated Effectiveness of Microdosing With Psychedelics for Mental and Physical Health Problems Among Microdosers(Hutten, N. R. P. W., Mason, N. L., Dolder, P. C., & Kuypers, K. P. C. (2019). Self-Rated Effectiveness of Microdosing With Psychedelics for Mental and Physical Health Problems Among Microdosers. Frontiers in psychiatry, 10, 672. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.00672/full)
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