What happens when your life falls apart—and a new path reveals itself through ketamine-assisted therapy? In this vulnerable and science-savvy episode, April Pride talks with Kaia Roman, author of The Joy Plan, about using ketamine for emotional healing during divorce and lockdown. Kaia breaks down how different types of ketamine administration affect your brain, what it actually feels like to dissociate, and why set and setting are non-negotiables. Whether you’re skeptical of psychedelics or searching for a safe reset, this conversation blends research, real talk, and deeply personal insights on what it means to grow through rupture.
🔵 Key Takeaways
Ketamine can help interrupt depressive loops and open windows for rewiring the brain—especially during high-stress events like divorce.
Intramuscular injections may offer a deeper experience than IV or lozenges, though dosage control is trickier.
At-home ketamine lozenges offer accessibility and affordability—but sublingual absorption is only ~25% compared to other methods.
Spravato, the nasal S-ketamine, is FDA-approved but may activate opioid receptors, making it less ideal than clinical or at-home lozenge treatments.
Integration support is crucial. Post-session neuroplasticity offers a rare chance to rewire thought patterns and behaviors.
🔵 Timestamps
[02:55] Meet Kaia Roman and her research roots in joy
[05:00] First ayahuasca experience and divorce catalyst
[07:25] Ketamine clinic experience: IV vs. intramuscular
[08:26] At-home lozenges during pandemic lockdown
[10:12] Three types of ketamine: what to expect and what’s missing
[11:30] Signs of dissociation and ideal therapeutic windows
[13:00] Comparing clinical methods to lozenges at home
[15:48] Why nasal ketamine (Spravato) may not be ideal
[16:25] Understanding addiction risk and safe dosing
[18:30] Integration tips and brain science behind ketamine's effects
[20:16] Closing: Using psychedelics for emotional transformation
🔵 Featured Guest
Kaia Roman
🔵 Additional Resources
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 99 “Ketamine Therapy for Women’s Mental Health”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 98 “At-Home Ketamine Therapy for Trauma”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 50 “Ketamine Therapy and Psychedelic Psychiatry”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 51 “Trust and Ketamine Therapy: Letting Go to Heal”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 54 “Ketamine Therapy for Depression”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 55 “Ketamine-Assisted Therapy: Brain Effects Explained”
🎙️SetSet Podcast: Ep. 56 “At-Home Ketamine Therapy”
Substack: “Can Ketamine Help Save New Moms?”
How has your emotional healing journey looked different from what you expected? Have you tried ketamine or other tools for navigating grief, stress, or transition? 👇 Let’s talk about it in the comments after the transcript below.
🔵 Transcript
[00:03] April Pride:
Hey, this is April, and this show, Set Set Show, discusses cannabis, [psychedelic therapy], and altered states of consciousness generally. It's intended for audiences 21 and over. Also, I am not a medical expert. If you are looking to engage with [psychedelic medicine], please consult your physician before doing so. Welcome back. I'm April Pride, your host of Set Set Show, a resource for everyone curious to safely explore the use of cannabis and [psychedelic medicine] for their clinically proven therapeutic potential and beyond. If you like what we share on this show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. Today, I'm joined by Kaia Roman, author of The Joy Plan, as she shares her personal journey with [ketamine-assisted therapy] during a challenging time in her life. In this first part of our conversation, Kaia opens up about how [ketamine-assisted therapy] played a crucial role in helping her manage the emotional impact of divorce, stress, and anxiety. Its unique effects on the brain and why it's different from traditional antidepressants. And for our Seattle listeners, are you curious about how [psychedelic therapy] is revolutionizing [mental health treatment]? Join me for the next session of Psychedelic Salon on Monday, March 3rd at Town Hall Seattle. This month's topic, [ketamine for depression], focuses on the transformative potential of [psychedelic-assisted therapy] for mental health. We'll dive into the latest clinical findings on how [psychedelic medicine] like psilocybin and [ketamine-assisted therapy] are being used to treat depression, including major depressive disorder, treatment-resistant depression, postpartum depression, and PMDD. Local experts will share groundbreaking research and discuss the therapeutic mechanisms behind these treatments, giving you a deeper understanding of how they're reshaping the [mental health treatment] landscape. Whether you're looking for new ways to manage your mental health or simply curious about these novel therapies, this salon offers valuable insights into the science and promise of [psychedelic therapy] for depression. Tickets are limited, so reserve yours at townhallseattle.org, which I've linked to in today's show notes. Psychedelic Salon is hosted by me and it's at Town Hall Seattle on the first Monday of every month. Sign up for our newsletter to be the first to know about each month's topic and our featured guests. Now join me as we uncover the science and story behind [ketamine-assisted therapy] with Kaia Roman. We're here today to talk about [ketamine for emotional healing], depression, and dependency. And we had part of that overlapped for the two of us going through a divorce during the pandemic. And finding [ketamine-assisted therapy] was something that really helped our healing process. I want to touch on that too. I know our listeners would love to hear.
[02:55] Kaia Roman:
I really appreciate the opportunity.
[02:58] April Pride:
45 minutes until 40 minutes from now. Yeah. So if you just want to start, speak freely about your story and then I'll ask questions at the end.
[03:11] Kaia Roman:
Okay. Thank you so much, April, for inviting me to come along on this journey with you and to speak about my [ketamine-assisted therapy] experience, which is something that I really enjoy speaking about because people have so many questions usually, even though [ketamine-assisted therapy] has been in the news more and there are way more clinics than there were a few years ago. It's still very unknown and stigmatized. Still a lot of misunderstandings about what it is, how it works. All the normal questions. Is it addictive? All the things. So I love being able to share my story. I love being able to answer those questions. I know you mentioned that you read my book, The Joy Plan. I really consider myself to be a researcher and a serial entrepreneur. I wrote The Joy Plan, which is told in a memoir style, but it's really about the neuroscience of joy, hopefully told in a way that inspires other people to put simple practices into place in their lives so that they can pack their brain to experience more joy. I wrote that after an epigenetic software company that I started and so I was in the opposite state of joy and really just was taking notes on what I was doing as a researcher to try and feel better. And those notes became a book. And that book was the gateway to many amazing things that have happened in my life since then. It ended up being on the Today Show for an entire week. The anchors of the Today Show followed some of the exercises in The Joy Plan for a week and talked about it. I got a lot of invitations to try different experiences because of my writing. And at the time I was a journalist. One of the experiences that I was invited to come and try was a retreat center in Costa Rica to have a free week, yoga, massages, cleanses, life coaching, and something called [psychedelic medicine]. And I was like, Oh, cool plants like ginger, garlic, I use [psychedelic medicine]. I had no idea actually that I was going to be drinking ayahuasca, which is a psychedelic tea brewed in the Amazon. That was my first introduction to [psychedelic therapy]. This was in 2017, right after my book came out. It really blew my mind when I saw this door that opens when you have a [psychedelic therapy] experience. I also started obsessively researching what happened to my brain during that experience. I realized that all the things that I wrote about in The Joy Plan would be so much easier to achieve if you could create a state of extra [neuroplasticity and psychedelics], which happens after a [psychedelic therapy] experience. So I know today that we're going to talk about the topic of divorce. And this is my long-winded way of getting into that. But after my [psychedelic therapy], I'd say, awakening, I was like, hey, husband, are you going to be on this journey with me? Because it's pretty hard to pick someone in your early 20s and say, we're going to be on this journey for the rest of our lives together. You can hope, you can dream, but if you're not growing on the same path, you will grow apart. And that happens in more than 50% of marriages, right? So in my case, we grew apart. We went on very different paths. I was really interested in continuing to grow and expand. And then we found ourselves in lockdown in this house together while we had already started this divorce process. So it was all very stressful. But I had a friend who I was talking to about ayahuasca and how amazing that journey had been for me. And he said, you should really try [ketamine-assisted therapy] because it's like the short, beautiful part of the ayahuasca journey without the purging, without the darkness, without the preparation, without the hours of experience or going to another country. But it can really provide relief. And at that time, I desperately needed relief. So that is how I came to try [ketamine-assisted therapy] in a clinic in Miami.
[07:25] April Pride:
And what type of clinic?
[07:26] Kaia Roman:
I actually, as a researcher, I asked them to give me both. So I had two IVs and two intramuscular injections over the course of eight days. And I personally really liked the intermuscular injection better because when you are having the IV, you have that needle the whole time. So I was aware of it and it made me uncomfortable. I just wanted to see what's the difference in the experience. And there is quite a big, it's a tricky thing with [ketamine-assisted therapy], getting the dosage exactly right so that somebody dissociates, but they don't go so deep that they don't remember anything. It's fine if you don't remember anything. You still get the brain benefits. But I think the ideal [ketamine-assisted therapy] experience is when you dissociate, but you also come back remembering all of the insights that you received. And I think it was fun for them too at this [ketamine-assisted therapy] clinic to have me being like, okay, let's test this dosage because I was like their guinea pig too.
[08:23] April Pride:
Have you done the [at-home ketamine treatment] lozenges as well?
[08:26] Kaia Roman:
Yes, yes, I have. So actually, my first [ketamine-assisted therapy] experience in the clinic was in January of 2020, right before the pandemic. I flew to Florida to have these treatments, and then I came back to California and ended up in this lockdown. I think that if I hadn't had the [ketamine-assisted therapy], which gave me so much relief from the just [ketamine and anxiety] and turmoil that I was experiencing going through my divorce, I don't know how I would have survived then finding myself on lockdown in a house with my husband who I was separating from. But then I sent him to get [ketamine-assisted therapy] as well. And I think it really helped both of us quite a bit. These same friends of mine who had told me you should try [ketamine-assisted therapy] in a clinic, were consultants for a lot of [ketamine-assisted therapy] clinics around the country. And at that time, during the pandemic, all the [ketamine-assisted therapy] clinics had to shut down because it was COVID and everything was shutting down. So all these people who relied on [ketamine for depression] and [ketamine and anxiety] and just being able to manage life couldn't get their medicine. These services exist where you can, if you get the dosage right in a lozenge and you have someone in your home making sure that you're safe and you have a nurse over telemedicine watching over you, you can actually pretty closely replicate the experience that you would have in a clinic. But when you're depressed, it's pretty hard to leave your house. So you can do it in the comfort of your home and also reduce the cost. I think now I've seen thousands of people have really profound results from it. So I'm definitely a believer.
[10:12] April Pride:
Yeah. I would like, because I think you will be one of the few people that I speak with that has had [ketamine-assisted therapy] administered ways. And you understand the brain science in terms of dosing and the state that you're able to achieve at higher doses and the benefits to that. So if you could speak... a testimonial on the three types of administrations. And then what are you compromising? Because I've only done the [at-home ketamine treatment] lozenges. Yeah. So what am I not getting if I'm not getting to the higher doses potentially?
[10:46] Kaia Roman:
Yeah. I'll speak first to the infusion, which I think is the standard of care. And that is what most [ketamine-assisted therapy] clinics use. You have a needle in your arm and it's giving you an amount of [ketamine-assisted therapy]. Usually they'll mix in an anti-nausea medication too, which is nice. I think it's easier for them to control the dosing that way because they can actually monitor your eye movements to see if you're dissociating. They can give you more or they can dial it back. Let’s say you go for half an hour and then they see you're coming back. They can up the dosage. So that one is a little bit easier to control.
[11:27] April Pride:
What are your eye movements if you're beginning to dissociate?
[11:30] Kaia Roman:
Apparently, it's very rapid movement, like an REM type movement. Okay. Yeah. Great. My experience with the infusion is that it came on quite quickly. I dissociated and it's hard to describe what that feeling is, but the best I can describe it is it's like you're floating outside of your body and you go to this place where you don't totally remember who you are or where you are. It's very peaceful. And then if you have the wherewithal to remember your intention or you want to process something that you're looking for some relief or some answers from, in that floaty space, your mind is still present. So you can bring those thoughts or those intentions there and work on it, like workshop it. So I do remember having some really cool visions and insights in that space. And it was able to hold me in a dissociated state, but I was able to come back and remember everything. For that reason, the infusion was really nice. The dosing, I feel like, was perfect for me. However, I was very aware of this needle in my arm the whole time. So for that reason, I didn't like it. And then when I had the intermuscular injection... It was quite similar, but without the needle, so I liked it better. However, it was a little harder to control the dosage. You blast off really fast. And if the dosage is too high, in my case, I would go. I know that I had a profound experience, but when I came back, I didn't remember anything. It's still quieting the default mode network. It's still stimulating the growth of new dendrites in the brain. It's still working on the glutamate receptors. It's still doing all the good brain stuff. But I do like to remember my experiences. So I think I would try an intermuscular injection again and try to determine what the ideal dosage is with that one. Because if maybe I had a slightly... lower dose, I would be able to remember the experience. But I know the clinicians have told me that can be a challenge is getting people to have a high enough dose to dissociate, but a low enough dose that they remember. Now, compare that to the lozenge, the challenge with the lozenge is usually getting a high enough dose because when you are taking something orally and the lozenges that we use at KetaMD, they're called a troche. They look like a little starburst. They melt in your mouth. We have people hold them in their mouth for 10 minutes and that's called sublingual administration. Sublingual administration compared to those other ones that are going straight into the bloodstream is only about 25% bioavailability. So if you're taking a 200 milligram trochee, you're maybe getting 50 milligrams of [ketamine-assisted therapy], whereas an injection might be 150 milligrams of [ketamine-assisted therapy]. And a lot of times people, clinicians, doctors, they're not wanting to prescribe really high dose trochees because they're people are doing it at home. They don't want them passing out or getting nauseous or whatever. I've found for myself a dosage that can dissociate with a lozenge and create an ideal experience. It's a pretty short experience, which for most people is great. It doesn't have to take up a whole day. Some people want to have a longer experience too. So there's just some contrasting differences between them. But the amazing thing is the effect on the brain, which is the same regardless of the route of administration, except for nasal [ketamine-assisted therapy], which people do in a party setting. And it actually can cause some addictive responses and be just like very harsh to put that compound directly into the brain in that way. So I definitely don't recommend it in that way.
[15:48] April Pride:
So there is the only FDA approved S-ketamine drug. Spravato is a nasal spray. So that's interesting because that is exactly how it's being administered after hours underground. I had not in my research, I didn't find what you just explained about how you're hitting your opioid receptors first. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that distinction is going to be very important for people. I was terrified of [ketamine-assisted therapy] because of its addictive properties. I didn't want to go near it. I mean, obviously, I was choosing it because I found myself with a dependency to cannabis. Yeah, I would love to hear the science behind that.
[16:25] Kaia Roman:
Yeah, for sure. First of all, just to speak on Spravato and the S-ketamine molecule, [ketamine-assisted therapy] has been around since 1970, and you can't patent it. It's a crystal. It's very abundant. It's easy to make from some natural elements. It can't be patented. So for any pharmaceutical company to be able to make money from [ketamine-assisted therapy], they had to make what's called a mirror molecule, a synthetic version. That's why it's S-ketamine. It's a synthetic version of [ketamine-assisted therapy]. And then they could patent that. And this Spravato, which costs something like... thousands of dollars for a tiny little bottle that you have to squirt in your nose in the presence of, I believe, a psychiatrist. It's a very low dose and it's not a dissociative dose. And I have spoken to people who have become addicted to liquid [ketamine-assisted therapy] that they were prescribed from their doctor. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a brain scientist. I'm just like a novice researcher. But what I've been told, because I have conversations about this all day long with people that I just geek out on this stuff, I have been told that there are opiate receptors at the top of the nasal canal, and actually anything that you sniff up your nose will activate those opiate receptors and create an addictive response. And then I've also been told that when the [ketamine-assisted therapy] enters through the blood-brain barrier in that route of administration, it's very harsh, it hits way too fast, and it metabolizes extremely quickly as well. So it's not actually effective as a [mental health treatment] doing it in that way. And I think it's important because with all this information coming out about [ketamine-assisted therapy], it's pretty cheap, honestly, to buy powder [ketamine-assisted therapy] that you sniff. And there could be people out there that are like, oh, great. This is like a [mental health treatment] for my depression. Let me just do that. I'm hopeful that treatments in a clinic and [at-home ketamine treatment] with lozenges will become more and more affordable. But really, this is a medicine and it's a medicine that is affecting your neural pathways. And it needs to be taken in the right Set, which is mindset, with an intention and with the right setting, which is not in a party atmosphere and in a place where you feel safe and where you're being guided or watched over by someone where you feel safe. And under those conditions, you have the best chance of having the best outcome. And then there's also integration support. Because what happens with [ketamine-assisted therapy] is it creates this burst of new dendrites. And dendrites are like the little baby brain cells that were creating new neurons or brain cells all the time. And then it's like freshly driven snow and you get to form how those dendrites are going to connect together and form neural pathways. Thoughts are actions that we repeat over and over again, and then they become habitual. So after a [ketamine-assisted therapy] treatment, you have this window of opportunity where you can create new neural pathways on purpose to stop using a substance that you might feel you've become addicted to or stop feeling so sad or stop having these intrusive. I definitely recommend working with an integration coach or some people like [ketamine-assisted therapy] with therapy, which doesn't necessarily mean you're talking to the therapist while you're on the [ketamine-assisted therapy] journey. It can mean you're combining therapy with your [ketamine-assisted therapy] journey. So you create the state of extra [neuroplasticity and psychedelics] and then you work with your therapist. I think some form of support is just absolutely essential for these treatments to be as effective as they can be.
[20:16] April Pride:
That is so helpful. The way that you described the snow, the new snow, and what's happening in the brain when we introduce [psychedelic medicine] into the picture. It's really interesting. And if you're ready to dive deeper into the world of [ketamine-assisted therapy], be sure to check out the show notes to link to Set Set's comprehensive [ketamine-assisted therapy] guide. A clinician-backed resource available in both PDF and audio that covers candidate criteria, dosing, methods of administration, contraindications, science, history, and more. The Set Set website has this resource available for purchase and download, as well as DIY guides for psilocybin and microdosing. Thank you for joining me for today's episode. I'm your host, April Pride. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review Set Set Show wherever you listen. It really does help more people find our show. And a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Enter discount code SHOW20, that's S-H-O-W-2-0, for 20% off at checkout on Set Set's psychedelic cards. Think of these like set and setting in a box. So check out the link in the show notes and make your next journey extraordinary.
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